Talk:Arrays (Papyrus)
I appreciate that this page has been created because I never really understood this Arrays thing... but I still barely get it. I think that this page needs a rewrite and it needs to be dumbed down.
First, when you write something "for begginers" don't give them a long lecture about how computer memory works. I know that you wanted people to understand the whole concept but it's really hard for newbies. And if you do something like this please, simply try to avoid sentences like "...since you'd need to construct identifiers at runtime by concatenating the descripting name with the changing index". Sometimes I just didn't know what it was about. You're talking about arrays and then suddenly: "Arrays are, memory-wise, just a bunch of bytes stacked together, continuous in memory (virtual memory, that is, physical memory can get messy). From now on, I'll just refer to it as memory."
Second, when you get to the technical part of the page, scripts and all, could you make it more orderly? Like, start with how you define an array, then tell how to define its value, then how do some other stuff... I mean, get from the simplest stuff to the most complicated. Right now I think there's everything in this article but I still don't understand it. Try to incorporate new things gradually. I know that this isn't a tutorial but still, many people are going to learn from this. Domius 14:16, 17 February 2012 (EST)
- Side-note - Very good! Regarding the "beginner's page intended for masters", I must underline a false and confusing assertion : "A rather simple formal representation: <identifier> <index_or_count>"... It's an index, not a count which could be confused with the number of items (with standard compilers, using such "count" would provoke an array overflow or an in-game CTD). The sole place where one would imperatively use the "Count" would be for initializing the array, which should be underlined outside of the formalization itself. Of course some algorithm could count the number of items and then use that number to calculate an index, or use some variable named "Count" for whatever purpose like incrementing it within a While loop for traversing the array, but that's not the point : we should keep in mind that it's essentially an index and that's it, nothing to do with counting anything.. e.g. when you have a seat number in the Magic Plane (the array), you just go there directly and sit, there's no counting nor "count" involved : you don't care about such a "count" number since you have your ticket (your own index). I guess that the original text wanted to insinuate that one must use the count so as to initialize the Array ; or that an array is ordered, meaning that the last index will always be (number of items -1) or (length of Array - 1), both representing the "Count - 1" (since indexes begin at 0). Actually, when talking about Arrays, the term "Count" is more understandable as being the length of the array, its number of indexes : the number of seats in the Magic Plane. The doc should be careful when addressing beginners : it should not insinuate anything as if some foreknowledge of what it's trying to explain was actually required. It should state it clearly, especially within its formalization. --HawkFest (talk) 2013-02-10T08:54:00 (EST)
For beginners who didn't major in CS
No offense meant to the person who wrote the For Beginners section, but I agree it's still far too technical for beginners. Here's my attempt.
Arrays are how programmers store lists of related things. Compare a normal person's grocery list:
Bread
Milk
Eggs
Bananas
Some people are a little more organized:
Grocery List
------------
1. Bread
2. Milk
3. Eggs
4. Bananas
Programmers have to be even more obsessive because computes are dumb and need every little detail written down.
Defining arrays
First the computer needs to know what kind of things will be in the list, that it will be a list, the name of the list.
FoodItem[] GroceryListDeclaring arrays
But many times we need to also tell the computer to make enough storage space to hold the number of items we plan to store.
FoodItem[] GroceryList = new Fooditem[4]Setting individual values
Then the items are stored in the numbered locations, but it's easier for the computer to start counting at zero instead of one, and has to be reminded of which list every single time.
GroceryList[0] = "Bread"
GroceryList[1] = "Milk"
GroceryList[2] = "Eggs"
GroceryList[3] = "Bananas"Checking the length
Finding out how many items are in the list is easy. (Actually it's how many slots are available, even if some are blank.)
GroceryList.lengthGetting individual values
Getting the values back isn't bad as long as you remember that the computer starts counting at zero.
FoodItem TheThirdItem = GroceryList[2]Creating functions that expect arrays
When you need to tell the computer to expect a list, you put the square brackets after the name of the type of items the list will hold.
Function BuyThese(FoodItem[] ShoppingListForToday)Sending whole arrays to a function
But to do something with an entire list you would just use it's name.
BuyThese(GroceryList)Examples of working with every item in the array
The real power of lists only appears when you need to do the same thing with every item in the list. We can loop through all of the items in the list by their index position.
Function BuyThese(FoodItem[] ShoppingListForToday)
int itemNumber = 0
while itemNumber < ShoppingListForToday.Length
FindTheItemAndPutItInYourCart(ShoppingListForToday[itemNumber])
itemNumber += 1
endwhile
GoThroughCheckoutAndPay()
EndFunctionMaking it a little more like the game's context for tracking items will make it more complex. So programmers usually shorten those names and might even give the list a name that makes more sense based on how it's used just to compensate.
Function BuyThese(FoodItem[] item) ; item is a list of fooditems
int totalCost = 0 ; we'll want to know this at the end
int n = 0 ; start at the beginning
while n < list.Length ; and go to the end of the list
if TheStore.GetItemCount(item[n]) > 0 ; if item is in stock
TheStore.RemoveItem(item[n], 1) ; take one from the shelf
TheCart.AddItem(item[n], 1) ; put it in our cart
totalCost += item[n].GetGoldValue() ; record the price
item[n] = None ; mark it off of our list
endif
n += 1 ; go on to the next item
endwhile
GoThroughCheckoutAndPay() ; hopefully we'll have enough money
EndFunctionOther considerations
But passing that list into the BuyThese function really is like handing someone a list. If code inside that function changes or removes some of the items, then they are changed everywhere that list is referenced. We aren't making copies of the list, just letting different parts of the code see it (and some may call it different things, but it's the same list). So after we've called "BuyThese(GroceryList)" we'll be able to see if anything wasn't available.
int i = 0
while i < GroceryList.Length
if GroceryList[i] ; it wasn't changed to None
Debug.Notification("We weren't able to buy the " + GroceryList[i].GetName())
endif
i += 1
endwhileSome special limitations are that each list can only have up to 128 items, you must use a literal number with the "new" command, and that you can't have an array of arrays.
--Cdcooley 23:24, 25 May 2012 (EDT)
- I just wrote a function that passes in an array of forms and populates it with the currently equipped gear of the specified actor. When attempting to access the array outside of the function, it is still empty. To me this implies that arrays are passed by value and any changes do not stick outside of the function. I am a CS major and understand how arrays work, so I am fairly sure that this is not a misunderstanding.
Form[] property playerEquipArray auto;
Function GetEquipment(Actor akActor, Form[] akEquipList, int aiArraySize)
int count = 0;
Form tempSlot;
tempSlot = akActor.GetWornForm(1); This is an skse function that gets the worn form if given a slot
if (tempSlot != None) && (akEquipList.find(tempSlot) < 0) ;Ensures that something was found and that it is not already in the array
akEquipList[count] = tempSlot; Assigns currently worn form to the current slot in the array
count += 1; Increments the array index
endif
tempSlot = akActor.GetWornForm(2);
if (tempSlot != None) && (akEquipList.find(tempSlot) < 0)
akEquipList[count] = tempSlot;
count += 1;
endif
tempSlot = akActor.GetWornForm(4);
if (tempSlot != None) && (akEquipList.find(tempSlot) < 0)
akEquipList[count] = tempSlot;
count += 1;
endif
tempSlot = akActor.GetWornForm(8);
if (tempSlot != None) && (akEquipList.find(tempSlot) < 0)
akEquipList[count] = tempSlot;
count += 1;
endif
tempSlot = akActor.GetWornForm(16);
if (tempSlot != None) && (akEquipList.find(tempSlot) < 0)
akEquipList[count] = tempSlot;
count += 1;
endif
tempSlot = akActor.GetWornForm(32);
if (tempSlot != None) && (akEquipList.find(tempSlot) < 0)
akEquipList[count] = tempSlot;
count += 1;
endif
tempSlot = akActor.GetWornForm(64);
if (tempSlot != None) && (akEquipList.find(tempSlot) < 0)
akEquipList[count] = tempSlot;
count += 1;
endif
tempSlot = akActor.GetWornForm(128);
if (tempSlot != None) && (akEquipList.find(tempSlot) < 0)
akEquipList[count] = tempSlot;
count += 1;
endif
tempSlot = akActor.GetWornForm(256);
if (tempSlot != None) && (akEquipList.find(tempSlot) < 0)
akEquipList[count] = tempSlot;
count += 1;
endif
tempSlot = akActor.GetWornForm(512);
if (tempSlot != None) && (akEquipList.find(tempSlot) < 0)
akEquipList[count] = tempSlot;
count += 1;
endif
tempSlot = akActor.GetWornForm(4096);
if (tempSlot != None) && (akEquipList.find(tempSlot) < 0)
akEquipList[count] = tempSlot;
count += 1;
endif
while (count < aiArraySize)
akEquipList[count] = None;
count += 1;
endWhile
endFunction
Event OnActivate(ObjectReference akActionRef)
GetEquipment(Game.GetPlayer(), playerEquipArray, 11); Player is definitely wearing something when tested
debug.messagebox(playerEquipArray[0].GetName()); Outputs no text
endEvent--JaxFirehart (talk) 16:16, 30 August 2012 (EDT)
- I modified this script as thus:
Form[] property playerEquipArray auto;
Form[] Function GetEquipment(Actor akActor)
int count = 0;
Form[] akEquipList = new Form[11];
Form tempSlot;
tempSlot = akActor.GetWornForm(1); This is an skse function that gets the worn form if given a slot
if (tempSlot != None) && (akEquipList.find(tempSlot) < 0) ;Ensures that something was found and that it is not already in the array
akEquipList[count] = tempSlot; Assigns currently worn form to the current slot in the array
count += 1; Increments the array index
endif
;SNIP
while (count < 11)
akEquipList[count] = None;
count += 1;
endWhile
endFunction
Event OnActivate(ObjectReference akActionRef)
playerEquipArray = GetEquipment(Game.GetPlayer()); Player is definitely wearing something when tested
debug.messagebox(playerEquipArray[0].GetName()); Outputs "Shrowded Cowl" as expected
endEvent- It now works as expected, this confirms to me that arrays are passed by value unless someone can explain how I am wrong
--JaxFirehart (talk) 16:41, 30 August 2012 (EDT)
- Btw you forgot the last line in your function : Return akEquipList. And yes function parameters are passed by value. Which is somewhat expected considering that the compiler does not allow dynamic arrays (we must provide its absolute length at compile time), more globally does not allow the manipulation of pointers (either to memory addresses and/or function stacks). However, in the context of Papyrus, it's not necessary : all one must do is to declare a variable outside any state, event or function (the default script), which can then be used within any function of the same script, without the need to pass it by address. e.g. in your example, your function could've used playerEquipArray directly instead of declaring a variable local to it (akEquipList), thus using less memory (here doubled) and less processes. Doing this with your other script above would make it work. Note that this would require some locking mechanism if you know that another script could externally access that function while it's in use by your script (e.g. the function could return an unexpected playerEquipArray property to your script if it's called at the same time by another script, since the external calls within your function will allow other scripts to unlock the thread - Read more). --HawkFest (talk) 2013-09-09T00:08:38 (EDT)
- It may not be necessary, but that doesn't mean it's not useful. Loops aren't necessary either, but try doing any half serious coding without them and you'll be wanting to hang yourself from a tree. In any case, the explanation in the main page is misleading, since it states that arrays are passed by reference, but as we know this isn't always the case. I had to learn it the hard way.. Anyway, I am editing the article to reflect this information.--Five Alpha Reductase 2015-04-09T00:13:54 (EDT)
Avoiding "Array Index out of range"
This can occur if the number of references you're adding to an array at run-time exceeds the length of the array.
Changing number of elements in Array properties
From testing, it seems rather unfortunate that changing the number of elements in a property also are subject to the previous length of the array being baked into the save. Changing the integer that is assigned to the length and setting it to 0 and then assigning it back to the length as a way of "resetting" the length of the array to the new length does not work.--Terra Nova2 (talk) 2015-02-27T07:20:35 (EST)